Legionas, Laeral, and High Fells

Descriptions & discussions of member nations' flora & fauna.
Bears Armed
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Legionas, Laeral, and High Fells

Post by Bears Armed » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Laeral</dt><dd>Dec 16 2017, 04:38:46 PM</dd></dl><div>In that case, a name for the 'Laughing Cedar' could be the 'Petite' or 'Dwarf' Cedar.

Regarding ginger, the Effbush certainly sounds interesting, but I don't think it really fits my own conception of Laeral and Laeralian food. So we can jut say that the Effbush never reached as far as Laeral.

So regarding the origins of Laeralian culture- I've never been a fan of the 'parallel worlds develop similarly' theory, and I think that there are too many similarities to the real world (including culture, language, etc.) to make the idea that Laeralian culture spontaneously developed in the IDU feasible. The idea that Laeral was colonized sometime in the nation's prehistory is interesting. The thing is, what is the IDU's relation to real-life Earth? Laeralian history does include plenty of contact with other regions, including RL Earth (French colonization, languages, and even Laeral's status as a present-day member of the UN and various other real-world organizations). And colonization would explain why Laeralian culture and genetics are so different from Legionas' and Malabras'. Of course, I suppose there would be no way in character to tell. I also like the idea of Laeral being 'torn' from RL Earth, as well. So how about this: Laeral was once part of RL Earth, and so developed it's ecology from real-life species. When migrating groups of people from RL Earth moved to Laeral for the first time, they settled it, before being mysteriously transported to the IDU thousands of years ago. An unusually stable inter-regional 'portal' (I hate to use this word here, which is rather overused in my opinion, but I can't think of any good synonyms) remained between Laeral's location on RL Earth and it's new location in the IDU, allowing more humans to arrive occasionally, as well as a smaller number of RL species. However, no one realized the concept of inter-regional portals, instead believing them to still be on RL Earth. This portal remained stable for a long time, allowing the French and other colonial powers to arrive. The portal began to 'flicker' in the 1830s, which deprived the colonial regime of consistent support from home and allowed the Revolution to succeed, as well as allowing the independent government (the first Allied Provinces) to survive without interference from other hostile powers which would normally have seized the moment to invade the weak, fragile revolutionary government. The portal stabilized once again in the 1890s, meaning that Laeral and High Fells were drawn into real-world conflicts such as WWI, before flickering once again starting in the 1950s (after Laeral had joined the UN, but High Fells had not, planning to do so later on). he portal remained fragile until the 1990s, when Laeral began to reopen ties with the real-world. The portal remains somewhat stable to this day, although it is still cheaper and safer for Laeral to trade with other IDU nations rather than risk the vagaries of the erratic portal.

I've already established that rice is grown in the Riverlands region. I hadn't anticipated the possibility of being able to grow grains such as wheat and barley given that I've sated that Laeral has 'bad' soil (I haven't actually established what kinds of soil problems Laeral has, so any guidance on this would be helpful). So in addition to those crops, the French introduced potatoes (only to seem them wiped out in a frost or blight in the 1840s, leading to famine in the ensuing decades) , some legumes and green vegetables, and both flax and some hemp, which still both grow in Laeral and make up some of our textile exports.

Regarding meat, the geese, ducks, chickens, and sheep/goat all sound appropriate. Now, you've said that silk would be difficult to grow in Laeral. I've already established (in multiple places) that silk is one of our major exports, though, so is there any way that large quantities of silk could be grown here?

Carp, water buffalo, and oxen all work. Having horses be rare /nonexistent before the French arrived would also be a reason that the French were able to conquer Laeral so easily- their cavalry were damaging psychologically to the Ren population, and gave the French greater mobility. And it makes sense that the French would have introduced oats as well.

No, Laeral does not have wild boar.[/quote]Okay, of course, re the Cedar's name.
Okay, re the range of the Effbush not extending into your nation (which maybeso gives urrs a potential trade item?) too.

The IDU's relationship to the 'real world'? Well, according to past decisions, despite the difference in continental outlines it's on an 'Earth' as far as matters such as astronomical location, planetary size, lengths of years & days, and so on, are concerned. Latitude-wise it's currently in the northern hemisphere, basically stretching from around 20 degrees North to somewhere around 60 degrees [or slightly further] North. Previous RP has presumed that it "overlapped" at least one Earth that was more like RP in the past, at least intermittently, allowing for species to spread from one to the other and then for various cultures to spread from the other world into ours at various dates... and the area of that 'RL Earth' involved has varied by enough that "early" Chinese appearing somehow in what is now Laeral and then French colonists arriving there by sea centuries later on would fit well enough. "Portal" is a term that's already been used, so that's fine too: In fact, some now-CTE'd nations here were also "historically" colonies belonging to various European nations. (Malabra's people, on the other paw [and since you mention them], are probably descended from a mixture of the region's Stone Age human occupants [proto-Amerinds?] with Bronze Age immigrants from somewhere in India & maybe also from the Middle East...) so I don't have any problems with your history.

Re the soil problems: I suppose that Laeral's bedrock could be mostly a 'shield' of old igneous rocks, with most of the potential nutrients already leached-out long ago, as is in RL the case for Australia, much of Africa, and large areas in both Fenno-Scandia and eastern Canada... although, of course, those areas all have climatic problems of one kind or another with crop-growing that Laeral wouldn't share... and, even so, where the growing season is adequate they do still manage to produce worthwhile crops in the sedimentary basins of some minor rivers as well as in whatever equivalents they have to your 'Riverlands'. Going by that, I'd certainly expect wheat and/or barley to be viable crops in at least some limited parts of your non-'Riverlands' provinces... and if they're not viable crops then how could High Fells, without a significant share of the Riverlands' rice production, have been able to maintain its existence as a separate nation?
There would almost certainly have been some types of both legumes & greens [& of onions, or related species, too] grown here even before the French colonists arrived, although the French probably introduced additional types as well.

Re the silk: Okay, we'll say that that the IDU has its own variety (or even species) of silkworms which is more cold-tolerant than the RL Chinese one. Note however, that the food plant for these (whether it's White Mulberry Trees, as in RL China, or something else) probably requires a more fertile soil than you've been presuming your non-Riverlands areas possesses...

'No' to Wild Boar? Have your people already eaten all of them, or at least all of those that weren't merged into your stocks of domesticated pigs?

Laeral
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Legionas, Laeral, and High Fells

Post by Laeral » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:02 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Bears Armed</dt><dd>Dec 18 2017, 05:36:12 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Laeral</dt><dd>Dec 16 2017, 04:38:46 PM</dd></dl><div>In that case, a name for the 'Laughing Cedar' could be the 'Petite' or 'Dwarf' Cedar.

Regarding ginger, the Effbush certainly sounds interesting, but I don't think it really fits my own conception of Laeral and Laeralian food. So we can jut say that the Effbush never reached as far as Laeral.

So regarding the origins of Laeralian culture- I've never been a fan of the 'parallel worlds develop similarly' theory, and I think that there are too many similarities to the real world (including culture, language, etc.) to make the idea that Laeralian culture spontaneously developed in the IDU feasible. The idea that Laeral was colonized sometime in the nation's prehistory is interesting. The thing is, what is the IDU's relation to real-life Earth? Laeralian history does include plenty of contact with other regions, including RL Earth (French colonization, languages, and even Laeral's status as a present-day member of the UN and various other real-world organizations). And colonization would explain why Laeralian culture and genetics are so different from Legionas' and Malabras'. Of course, I suppose there would be no way in character to tell. I also like the idea of Laeral being 'torn' from RL Earth, as well. So how about this: Laeral was once part of RL Earth, and so developed it's ecology from real-life species. When migrating groups of people from RL Earth moved to Laeral for the first time, they settled it, before being mysteriously transported to the IDU thousands of years ago. An unusually stable inter-regional 'portal' (I hate to use this word here, which is rather overused in my opinion, but I can't think of any good synonyms) remained between Laeral's location on RL Earth and it's new location in the IDU, allowing more humans to arrive occasionally, as well as a smaller number of RL species. However, no one realized the concept of inter-regional portals, instead believing them to still be on RL Earth. This portal remained stable for a long time, allowing the French and other colonial powers to arrive. The portal began to 'flicker' in the 1830s, which deprived the colonial regime of consistent support from home and allowed the Revolution to succeed, as well as allowing the independent government (the first Allied Provinces) to survive without interference from other hostile powers which would normally have seized the moment to invade the weak, fragile revolutionary government. The portal stabilized once again in the 1890s, meaning that Laeral and High Fells were drawn into real-world conflicts such as WWI, before flickering once again starting in the 1950s (after Laeral had joined the UN, but High Fells had not, planning to do so later on). he portal remained fragile until the 1990s, when Laeral began to reopen ties with the real-world. The portal remains somewhat stable to this day, although it is still cheaper and safer for Laeral to trade with other IDU nations rather than risk the vagaries of the erratic portal.

I've already established that rice is grown in the Riverlands region. I hadn't anticipated the possibility of being able to grow grains such as wheat and barley given that I've sated that Laeral has 'bad' soil (I haven't actually established what kinds of soil problems Laeral has, so any guidance on this would be helpful). So in addition to those crops, the French introduced potatoes (only to seem them wiped out in a frost or blight in the 1840s, leading to famine in the ensuing decades) , some legumes and green vegetables, and both flax and some hemp, which still both grow in Laeral and make up some of our textile exports.

Regarding meat, the geese, ducks, chickens, and sheep/goat all sound appropriate. Now, you've said that silk would be difficult to grow in Laeral. I've already established (in multiple places) that silk is one of our major exports, though, so is there any way that large quantities of silk could be grown here?

Carp, water buffalo, and oxen all work. Having horses be rare /nonexistent before the French arrived would also be a reason that the French were able to conquer Laeral so easily- their cavalry were damaging psychologically to the Ren population, and gave the French greater mobility. And it makes sense that the French would have introduced oats as well.

No, Laeral does not have wild boar.[/quote]Okay, of course, re the Cedar's name.
Okay, re the range of the Effbush not extending into your nation (which maybeso gives urrs a potential trade item?) too.

The IDU's relationship to the 'real world'? Well, according to past decisions, despite the difference in continental outlines it's on an 'Earth' as far as matters such as astronomical location, planetary size, lengths of years & days, and so on, are concerned. Latitude-wise it's currently in the northern hemisphere, basically stretching from around 20 degrees North to somewhere around 60 degrees [or slightly further] North. Previous RP has presumed that it "overlapped" at least one Earth that was more like RP in the past, at least intermittently, allowing for species to spread from one to the other and then for various cultures to spread from the other world into ours at various dates... and the area of that 'RL Earth' involved has varied by enough that "early" Chinese appearing somehow in what is now Laeral and then French colonists arriving there by sea centuries later on would fit well enough. "Portal" is a term that's already been used, so that's fine too: In fact, some now-CTE'd nations here were also "historically" colonies belonging to various European nations. (Malabra's people, on the other paw [and since you mention them], are probably descended from a mixture of the region's Stone Age human occupants [proto-Amerinds?] with Bronze Age immigrants from somewhere in India & maybe also from the Middle East...) so I don't have any problems with your history.

Re the soil problems: I suppose that Laeral's bedrock could be mostly a 'shield' of old igneous rocks, with most of the potential nutrients already leached-out long ago, as is in RL the case for Australia, much of Africa, and large areas in both Fenno-Scandia and eastern Canada... although, of course, those areas all have climatic problems of one kind or another with crop-growing that Laeral wouldn't share... and, even so, where the growing season is adequate they do still manage to produce worthwhile crops in the sedimentary basins of some minor rivers as well as in whatever equivalents they have to your 'Riverlands'. Going by that, I'd certainly expect wheat and/or barley to be viable crops in at least some limited parts of your non-'Riverlands' provinces... and if they're not viable crops then how could High Fells, without a significant share of the Riverlands' rice production, have been able to maintain its existence as a separate nation?
There would almost certainly have been some types of both legumes & greens [& of onions, or related species, too] grown here even before the French colonists arrived, although the French probably introduced additional types as well.

Re the silk: Okay, we'll say that that the IDU has its own variety (or even species) of silkworms which is more cold-tolerant than the RL Chinese one. Note however, that the food plant for these (whether it's White Mulberry Trees, as in RL China, or something else) probably requires a more fertile soil than you've been presuming your non-Riverlands areas possesses...

'No' to Wild Boar? Have your people already eaten all of them, or at least all of those that weren't merged into your stocks of domesticated pigs?[/quote]Regarding the Effbush, you could certainly have Effbush products listed as one of Bears' exports when Verwood's trade proposal starts.

The astronomical, geographic, and cosmological information is very useful, and it's good to see that my explanation for the settling of Laeral works. It could be interesting to plot the location of the 'portals' to other regions (perhaps those we have embassies with, plus the RL world) on the regional map, as well.

Regarding Laeral's and High Fells' soil issues, I think that I may have made a mistake in explaining the scope of the soil issues in Laeral. Yes, the regions of Laeral away from the Riverlands are somewhat less fertile than the Riverlands themselves. However, this doesn't mean that areas not in the Riverlands are harsh deserts or completely unproductive. It's more that the majority of Laeral's crops are sourced from the Riverlands, and that the soil in non-Riverlands areas can't support certain crops, and isn't quite as fertile as it could be. The disparity between the Riverlands and other regions is more of a social issue than anything else, with the Riverlands being more developed and having a higher population and average income than other regions (in fact, around one-third of Laeral's population lives in the Riverlands provinces). So I think the 'shield' explanation works if we note that there aren't any of the climatic problems that prevent agriculture in say, the Australian outback. I just need an explanation for how some regions of Laeral would be more fertile than others. So wheat/barley can be grown in most parts of Laeral and High Fells. High Fells, meanwhile, has a much smaller population than Laeral (around ten million) and their diet features more meat than the Laeralian diet does, because there is more animal grazing there.

Your explanation about the silkworm works well, and given that the non-Riverlands soil is more fertile than you've been assuming, we can say that mulberry trees can, in fact, grow in most of Laeral, not just the Riverlands. Of course, the prevalence of mulberry trees could be an explanation for how Laeral can't yet provide all its own food. It's possible that farmers in places that could support silk production or agriculture choose to produce silk rather than food because silk commands higher prices- with the end result that Laeral has a lot of silk but not as much food as is desired.

Regarding the wild boar, I suppose they've been domesticated and/or hunted to extinction.

Bears Armed
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Legionas, Laeral, and High Fells

Post by Bears Armed » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:59 pm

Noble Cedar = Cryptomeria nobilis.. or we might call it the 'Elegant Cedar', with the Latin name of C. elegans, instead: I still need to settle on one or the other of these two potential 'scientific' names.
The shorter 'Cedar' = C. spiralis
Effbush = Metacryptomeria officinalis
Umbrella-Pine = Sciadopitys orientalis (That's the species in Laeral, whereas in B.A. we have the related S. occidentalis instead...)

(Checked via the 'Latin Motto' thread in the NS forums' 'Gameplay' section.)
Last edited by Bears Armed on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Laeral
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Legionas, Laeral, and High Fells

Post by Laeral » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:07 pm

Are you intending to revive this thread?

Bears Armed
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Legionas, Laeral, and High Fells

Post by Bears Armed » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:04 pm

Yes; just very busy in RL at the moment...

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